Untitled Document
ILIAD AND ODYSSEUS
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Older Version of Iliad and Odysseus

ILIAD

The war at Troy was significant to Illyrians because it was the story of their heroic Dardanian ancestors. Throughout ages before the translation into Greek, Illyrian bards had been lamenting the fall of Ilios. Consequently numerous ballads about the Trojan War were scattered across Asia Minor and the Balkans.

The Illyrian variants of the Trojan War have been lost. The Homeric saga is a mere translation of an early oral heritage created immediately after the war. Progressively those poems were collected and translated in the same way Christians would shape their own Holy Book, the Bible later. As events of the story were embellished, names substituted with Greek appellations, the story gained a mythical flavor. Without Homer's wonderful poems, the story of Troy might have remained an Illyrian legend; instead it endured major alterations and was supplanted by the Greek triumph. However, Iliad bears the subliminal admiration for Trojans and pays homage to the defenders of the city. The so-called Homer's neutrality is actually a compromise of Illyrian and Hellenic versions of Iliad. Similar Illyrian epics were sung all over the Mediterranean so the official Homeric adaptation could not exaggerate the Greek magnificence.

The majority of Olympian gods not only side with the embattled citizens of Wilusa but they even fight for Trojans against Achaeans. If Iliad is the allegoric account of an unjust war, the epic of Agamemnon, his horrendous death back home was interpreted as a punishment for the destruction of Wilusa. A similar fate would follow almost all Greek heroes who participated in the Trojan war. Their tragic death, their immense suffering was part of a bigger picture. The woes of Ulysses at the sea, the disappearance of all his wartime friends at the claws of gruesome monsters could not have been written by the Greeks either.

Illyrian bards used In Ulysses the epithet 'the divine Pelasgians'. This name ubiquitously used in Ulysses was a constant reminder of the real authors of the first and second epic. It was attributed to the pre-Greek population in the Balkans. Never had a singer of a conquering army praised the enemy and scolded the victors. Homer's neutrality not only didn't make sense with Greek prejudice against any barbaric values but it was also an affront to Greek instinct. No other Greek writer would ever follow the path of neutrality.

The exception of Homer was justified by his literary status. Homer was not a writer but a translator of two poems: one the old Iliad, the other rather new Ulysses written at least 150 years after Iliad. Extensive research has shown that Iliad and Ulysses are different in matter and style, definitely written by two different authors. Many Roman writers would make the same mistake, translate Greek tragedies and comedies, change the names and claim the texts as their own creation.

Semitic tribes that invaded the land of Sumerians would make history by including the Sumerian flood stories in their myth of creation. The accidental discovery of mud bricks in Uruk, Sumer (today Iraq) disqualified all biblical stories of Akkadian and Hebraic authorship.

A lot of literary creations were stripped of their Roman origin after similar Greek works of art were discovered later. But it is impossible to strip the Greeks in a similar fashion unless older versions of Iliad have been found by archeologists.

However, in the ancient world the copping of another's literary work was not considered plagiarism. Eventually the unauthorized modification of Iliad was better than nothing. Lost civilizations, destroyed cities, burnt libraries, monotheistic dogmas, religious scourge, plagues, fanatics, worn down papyruses, all contributed in the oblivion of ancient memories.

Both Greeks and Illyrians fought bitterly not only during the Trojan War but centuries afterwards for the authorship of Homeric songs. So intense was their competition that finally Greeks called themselves arbitrarily Helens. Illyrians have probably named themselves after their ancient city, Wilusa. Romans would follow suit by claiming a Trojan descent through the lineage of Aeneas. Virgil's Aeneid was an embellished official story, a kind of mythological propaganda. Homeric songs were no different in purpose and style.

The Greeks who historically had never acknowledged the appropriation of other gods, myths and ideas from other cultures (mainly Egyptian, Phoenician) proved to be the pirates of the greatest ancient oral tradition.

Etymological evidence shows that the name of Ulysses is an Italic-Etruscan reading of Wilussa, Wilussya capital of Arzawa or Greek Ilios. Ulysses is the conqueror of Wilussa. Therefore his name is of Hittite origin (translated into Etruscan). The epic of Wilusa is not 'the Anger of Achilles' but the 'victory of the hateful Ulysses'. Actually both poems have been dedicated to Ulysses. The first epic described the sharpness of Ulysses, his ingenious idea of building the wooden horse. The second epic was created after the invasion of the Hittite Empire by the Sea People.

Terrible earthquakes destroyed Mediterranean civilizations when the volcanoes erupted abruptly. Italic people believed that earthquakes were caused by angry giants sleeping inside the mountain caves. The single eye of Cyclops was the eye of the volcano. The rocks that the giants threw were the vent in the earth's crust through which molten rock was ejected.

Primitive Italic, Hittite, Illyrian people had no scientific explanation for the volcanoes. Allegedly the conqueror of Wilusa blinded the Cyclops, the son of Poseidon which caused the anger of the sea god who prevented Ulysses from returning home.

The common phonetic shift -d- > -l- of Italic-Illyrian languages proves that Hattussa was also read as Wilussa. That is why Troy had two names. Hittite called the disputed territory as Hattussa (Wilussa) while the Sea People from Dardania called it Darda > Troas.

Probable etymology of Illyria:

Root / lemma: ai̯os- : `metal (copper; iron)' derived from Root / lemma: eis-1 : `to move rapidly, *weapon, iron' as Aɫas(ja), the old name of Cyprus : Hittite PN Wilusa (gr. reading Ilios) [phonetic mutation of the old laryngeal he- > a-, i-]: gall. Isarno- PN, ven. FlN 'Iσάρας, later Īsarcus, nhd. Eisack (Tirol); urir. PN I(s)aros, air. Īär, balkanillyr. iser, messap. isareti (Krahe IF. 46, 184 f.); kelt. FlN Isarā, nhd. Isar, Iser, frz. Isère; *Isiā, frz. Oise; *Isurā, engl. Ure, usw. (Pokorny Urillyrier 114 f., 161); nhd. FlN Ill, Illach, Iller, lett. FlN Isline, Islīcis, wruss. Isɫa, alb. VN Illyrii.
__________________
And the gentleman said

Should you happen to come upon
An Albanian and a wolf
Slay the Albanian

When the Albanian heard the saying
He smiled
And rolled himself a cigarette

If you slay me
my poor friend
Who will slay
The wolf

Poor herds

.../by Bloody eagle/


 

Odysseus

(1.68) Odysseus so odious -an effort to translate a pun on Odysseus' name, which means "he who gives or receives pain."

(9.361) my glorious name -in Greek, m'onoma kluton or "my famous name."

(9.364) Noman = Outis = "no man" or "no one" in Greek. When the other Cyclopes say, "Is some man is rustling your flocks" and "If no man is hurting you" (9.404, 9.409), they use another Greek form of the negative, mê tis, which means "no one" or "no man." This word sounds very much like another Greek word -mêtis- which means "cunning intelligence," and which forms part of Odysseus's usual epithet polymêtis, or "much cunning intelligence." Odysseus himself exacerbates the pun at 9.411-12, which might be more literally translated as: "my heart within laughed / at how my name and faultless cunning [mêtis] had fooled him."

(9.402) Polyphemus -In Greek, "much telling" or "much fame"-in other words, a braggart –however, his name might be linked to the complaint of his relatives who came to rescue him but were stunned by gibberish talk of Polyphemus mumbling the name of Ulysses. Note that we learn the Cyclops' name only now, and that Odysseus, too, both hides his own name and talks a lot about his fame.

(19.199) My name is Aethon which means, "red," or "ruddy." Another form, aithomenos, means "burning, to kindle, set alight." Dimock suggests that in this passage Odysseus' fiery lies melt and dissolve Penelope to tears (see lines 19.219-225).

Clearly Odysseus emplyed many names in Iliad but -the hateful one- survived as his main appellation.

(19.440-48) Odysseus' name is related to the Greek verb odussomai, which usually means "to be angry at," "to hate," or "to be grieved." However, as George Dimock points out, in Homer's Odyssey the verb usually means "to cause pain" or "to bear a grudge against." Thus, Odysseus' name means "he who causes pain or makes others angry." Hence when he names Odysseus, Autolycus associates that name with his own tricky behavior: "odious, yes, / Hateful to many for the pain I have caused" (19.445-46). In addition, the verb associated with Odysseus' name can also mean "to suffer or receive pain." Lombardo translates this meaning (ôdinô, ôdusato) as "odious to" (1.68, 5.341, 5.425) and "hit him hard" (19.303). (In what ways does Odysseus cause pain, and in what ways is he grieving or long-suffering? Should a hero cause pain?) See the introduction, "The Man of Pain" (xvii-xxvii).

In addition, the theme of the name is immensely complicated by the meanings of the pseudonym that Odysseus uses to trick the Cyclops. Odysseus is a "no man" or "nobody" (ou tis), an "any man" (mê tis) who is also famous for being extremely clever (mêtis). Could a hero A NOBODY? Instead a hero must make his name glorious and famous by doing great deeds. If he dies unknown, as could have happened to the archetypal anonymous Elpenor, his name and fame die with him. Yet Odysseus did not become –the one who caused pain- in order to be celebrated by poets and future generations.

(24.313-15) Alybas . . . Apheidas . . . Polypemon -These names that Odysseus tries tto pawn off on his father are translated by Robert Fagles as "Roamer-Town," "Unsparing" and "old King Pain" respectively. According to Georg Autenrieth, Polypemon means "A great possessor or sufferer."

(24.315) Eperitus, Odysseus' last pseudonym, is translated by Fagles as "Man of Strife." George Dimock says the name sounds similar to peiretizon, "to put to the test" (328), precisely what Odysseus is doing to his father. (See lines 24.225 and 24.245-47.) However, Eperitus seems closest to eperetos, "at the oar," or "furnished with oars."

The name of ODYSSEUS otherwise ULYSSES [common Italic-Illyrian -d- > -l- phonetic mutation] derived from Greek odyssesthai "to hate". But odyssesthai "to hate" has no derivatives in Greek therefore it is a loanword. This makes the name ODYSSEUS a loanword from Hittite into Greek: Hittite ḫatuki- ` dreadful, terrible, horrible, awful, tremendous, redoubtable, formidable '. If ODYSSEUS was one of the greatest Greek Heroes why would he be called 'the hateful'?

'Odysseus (Ulixes/Ulysses) was the son of Laertes and Anticlea (the daughter of Autolycus, who was the son of Hermes), the husband of Penelope (usually thought of as inordinately faithful) and father of Telemachus. Odysseus was also king of Ithaca, a favorite of Athena, and one of the few Greeks to return home safely from Troy and the Trojan War - even if it took a while.

Odysseus fought for ten years in the Trojan War before coming up with the idea of the wooden horse -- just one example of why "wily" or "crafty" is attached to his name.'

Odysseus got the name 'the hateful' because he incurred the wrath of Poseidon for blinding Poseidon's Cyclops son Polyphemus. In retaliation, it took Odysseus another decade before he could arrive home, to Ithaca barely in time to drive out Penelope's suitors.

Greek odyssesthai "to hate" derived from

But the Hittite ḫatuki- ` dreadful, terrible, horrible, awful, tremendous, redoubtable, formidable ' is identical with the name of Hittite capital Hattussa. So Hattusili, the king of Hattussa was called ḫatuki- ` dreadful, terrible' in the indigenous language of Hurrians. The name Hattussa has been attributed to the second Hittite King Hattusili I who conquered the plain south of Hattusa, all the way to the outskirts of modern-day Aleppo in Assyria. But the Assyrian Hittie War took place around 1650 BC - under the first Hittite King Labarna to the reign of Hattusili I and then - 1590 BC Mursili I. The alleged Achaean Trojan War took place several centuries later. Therefore the very name Hattussa was the cognate of Hurrian language. Hurrians were the indigenous non-Indo European people conquered by Hittites. Hittites borrowed a lot of Hurrian gods, Hurrian names and their Hittite language absorbed the bulk of Hurrian vocabulary. Relatively new Indo European cultures like Greek and Latin borrowed the Hurrian words through Hittite texts.

Hittites actually called themselves people of Nesa (an abbreviation of Kanesh ) as their ancestors originated from the region called Kanesh by Egyptians, Canaan called by Phoenicians, the Holy Land in the Bible. Hittites called their language, Nesili, the language of Nesa.

The name Kanesh was obviously an Egyptian distortion of Hittite King appellation Hattusili I, 'the conqueror of Hattussa, the land of Hurrians'. Egyptians could not distinguish the old Indo European laryngeals; hence to Egyptians the Hittite laryngeal H- seemed like K-.

Indo Europeans had long noses and produced strange nasal sounds to Egyptians who read Hattusa as Hantusa, abbreviated Kanesh. A latter Hittite king who ruled in 1590 BC? Was called Hantili I, clearly an abbreviation of the honorable name Hattusili. During the line of succession the name Hattusili, otherwise Hantili were used several times. Illyrians would follow the Hittite tradition in the Balkans, repeating the name of kings to other successors of the same blood line [Bardylis I, Bardylis II].

Actually the first recorded Illyrian king was called Hylli (Greek Hyllus) - possibly an abbreviated form of Hattusili. In Greek language the formant -roi is used to form adjecttives, or attribute nouns. Hence Illyroi were the people of Ilios, (Hittite Wilusa, Willussya). The founder of Troy in Greek mythology was called Ilus, Ilios, a Greek reading of Illyrian king Hyllus.

So Albanians have preserved the old laryngeal H1-. Hittite people (also Illyrians) spoke a language that was profoundly affected by Semitic languages. They used the so called laryngeals that were present in Illyrian and Greek but disappeared in younger Indo European languages. The ending -ili = god (from Enlil in Sumer) is ubiquitous in Hittite and Illyrian king lists. But it is absent among the names of Greek kings or any other Indo European people king list. In Greek -ll- < -li- phonetic mutation proves that the name of the first Illyrian king was Hyli-us, where -us a typical Greek ending.

Illyrians otherwise Albanians (mountain people) had a tendency to abbreviate long Indo European words, so Hillussya became Illyria, Hattusili became Hylli. Illyrians later Slavic languages used a prothetic V-, W- for the lost laryngeal H1-, consequently Hillussa was pronounced as Wilussa in Illyrian dialects. Hittite Empire was divided into two parts similarly to other great empires. The second Rome of the divided Hittite Empire was called Hillussa after Hattussa, common Illyrian -d- > -l- phonetic mutation.
__________________
And the gentleman said

Should you happen to come upon
An Albanian and a wolf
Slay the Albanian

When the Albanian heard the saying
He smiled
And rolled himself a cigarette

If you slay me
my poor friend
Who will slay
The wolf

Poor herds

.../by Bloody eagle/


Zeus10: Good job, really by a proffesional mind, but I don't agree that Hyllus comes from Hittite word Hattusili. My opsion is much simplier
Hyllus~hyll+us(suffix)=hyll=yll in south Albania Gjirokaster "Ill"
Hyllus was the eponim, hero name that gave the name to the country Hylliria=ylliria=Illiria=illyria


Leandros: të lumtë!
help me realise,who were the illyrians from the 2 sides......greeks or trojans...and what about homer...was he greek-illyrian,trojan-illyrian or smthing else?btw,the late turkish president ozal,claimed that homer was actually omer passa,a turk...
Zeus10:1.There was no Greeks in Trojan War (~1200 BC). The first wave of Dorians(helenes) starts the migration towards the Greece betwen 1100-900 BC, and thinking a long time elapsed till this tribe was fully compacted.
Aacheas, argives, driops, pelargs and some other pelasgians tribes of Greece, were on one side.
2.On the other side were the Dardanians(ilirian tribe) or Illiones, autarians(illyrian tribe), Dardanians(from Dardania), paniones(illyrian tribe) etc.
Augustini: Sorry, but the Dorians were the LAST of the Hellenic tribes to invade ancient Greece. The Achaeans, Ionians, and Aeolians preceded the Dorians.
The Hellenic invasions occured in the late 3rd millenium. It was the Dorian invasion of the Peloponnese which occured around 1200 BCE (per Dr. Carl Blegen of the University of Cincinnati).
__________________
Na jemi kushërirë, gjaku jin i shprishur.
Rrofte Shqipëria Etnike!

Zeus10:You are saying the same thing. The Dorians were probably a panonic migration that settled first Illyria (1800-1400 BCE), second Epirus(1400-1200), third Emathia(1200-1100), forth Thesalia (1100~1000) fivth Peloponnese(1000-900).
But they didn't participate in TROJAN WAR

sorry you are wrong

Timeline History

The Bronze Age

3,000 BC to 1100 BC
2,000 - 1,700 BC Mycenean enter mainland Greece.
1,700 - 1,500 BC The height of Minoan Civilization is reached.
1,400 BC The rise of Mycenean naval strength.
1,200 BC The Trojan War, civil war, and the fall of the Mycenean.
1,150 BC Dorian Immigration into Greece mainland.
1,150 - 1,100 BC Aeolian Immigrations begin to Asia Minor.

The Dark Age
1,100 - 800 BC
1,100 BC End of Mycenean age and civilization. Early city states are ruled through monarchy.
1,100 - 1,000 BC Ionian Immigration to Asia Minor.
900 BC Dorian migration to the Aegean islands, Asia Minor (area around Rhodes), and through the Peloponnesus.

Archaic Period
800 BC - 500 BC
800 - 700 BC Monarchies begin to be replaced by Aristocratic Republics.
776 BC Date of the first Olympic games.
621 BC Draco's code of law - Athens.
600 BC Coin currency introduced.
566 BC Panathenaic festivals established.
546 BC Persian invasion and conquest of Greek territories through out Asia Minor.
507 BC Cleisthenes' democratic constitution.

Classical Period
500 - 400 BC
490 BC First Persian invasion of Greece, the Battle of Marathon.
480 BC Second Persian invasion of Greece, Spartans are defeated at Thermopylae, Athens is occupied by the Persians. The Persians are finally defeated at Salamis.
The founding of the Delian League.
479 BC Persians are defeated at Plataea.
448 BC Peace with the Persians
443 - 429 BC Pericles is leader of Athens during the Golden Age.
431 - 404 BC The Peloponnesian War
430 BC Plague in Athens
411 BC Revolts in Athens
404 BC Athens Surrenders to Sparta.

Late Classical Period
400 - 330 BC

395 - 340 BCWarfare between rival Greek leagues.
371 BC Thebes defeats Sparta at Leuctra
338 BC Philip of Macedonia leads the Greek City States.
336 - 323 BC Alexander the Great's reign begins.

Augustini: Dr. Blevin said that the Dorians invaded the Peloponnese circa 1200 BCE. They could easily have taken part in the Trojan War.

And the Hellenic invasions of the late 3rd millenium (pre 2000 BCE) weren't the Myceneans. These were the post Mycenean tribes (Achaeans, Ionians, Aeolians and Dorians).


Zeus10:... The timeline I posted is widly accepted. Dr Blevin is just one voice.

Thucydides/History of The Peloponnesian War/Book I


.................The best proof of this is furnished by
Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by
that name(helens).......


Augustini:... I was incorrect about the Hellenic invasions being POST-Mycenian:

"Because of the importance of the city in prehistoric times, its name is often applied to the last phase of prehistoric civilization in Greece, otherwise called Late Helladic III (c. 1400-1100 B.C.). Sometimes "Mycenaean" is used for the entire Late Helladic civilization (1600-1100 B.C.)." Collier's Encyclopedia page 108

But as you can see, the Hellenic invasions occured long before the Trojan War.
Zeus10:..."...where were all the Dorians during the Mycenaean period? And why were they content to wait in the wings until the time was right for their intervention?"
The very question answers itself: the Dorians were waiting in the wings, archaeologically out of sight in northwest Greece. The problem is that there are no traces of any Dorians anywhere until the start of the Protogeometric period about 1050 BC. Changes in material culture, such as iron, new weapons, and changes in burial practices from Mycenaean group burials in tholos tombs to individual burials and cremation, are associated with the culture of the Dorians.

It is more likely that the Mycenaean civilization went into decline, and the Dorians moved south more gradually into the power vacuum this created. This was a time of great upheaval in the eastern Mediterranean (see Sea Peoples), and the disruption of long-distance trade, as well as civil war and natural disaster, are possible explanations for the destruction of the Mycenaeans. At the same time, there were other population movements such as the colonization of islands in the Aegean sea and the west coast of Asia Minor
Therefore Dorians do NOT belong to Mycenian civilisation, not at all.

In this website you fin a map also.
They came too late to be included in Mycenian civilisation
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehisto...e/dorians.html


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